Woolwich Again.

This is an incisive and thought provoking article in the City Journal by a physician writer who has spent time within the prison system.

Dr. Dalrymple concludes his article with : “What these cases show is that it is not Islam that makes young converts violent; it is the violence within them that causes them to convert to Islam. The religion, in its most bloodthirsty form, supplies all their psychological needs and channels their anger into a supposedly higher purpose. It gives them moral license to act upon their rage; for, like many in our society, they do not realize that anger is not self-justifying, that one is not necessarily right because one is angry, and that in any case even justified anger does not entail a license to act violently. The hacking to death of Lee Rigby on a street in Woolwich tells us as much about the society that we have created, or allowed to develop, as it does about radical Islam preached by fat, middle-aged clerics. “

All those who are puzzled as to why Woolwich and other such incidents happen, nothing could give answers better than this. This article deseves a much wider audience and I hope that my readers will spread it around too.

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17 Responses to Woolwich Again.

  1. Nandu Pillai says:

    Interesting theory but I am not sure I buy into it . I think the radical Islamic mullahs/elements in their search for Jehadis have realised that the stereo type terrorist ( muslim name , brown , bearded etc ) is being tracked , so they are looking for “suicide killer” candidates who do not fit the stereo type ( ie white or black people ) to slip under the radar – It is a security services nightmare – they have to now track for eg white Chechens , African origin people etc . One thing is for sure the “terrorist” wil always be one step ahead of the security services who are already stretched and lacking in co ordination or worse indulging in turf wars ( CIA with FBI ,.MI5 with MI6 etc )

    • This is a case where an “Also” has been identified. You are right. Same driver different vehicles. To use one of your old favourite phrases, horses for courses.

  2. tammyj says:

    that is a remarkable insight. astute and cutting to the chase.
    and they’ve been fed ‘violence is cool’ through the entertainment media for years to help also feed that supposed anger. maybe they simply have different wiring than the rest of society.
    i also think nandu pillai’s comment is key too.
    it’s clear. no simple answer in sight.
    tammyj recently posted..it’s midnight in paris mr spock

    • No. Till the muslims accept that they need to change to fit in to modern social systems, instead of sticking to their own out dated systems, we will not have an end to this. It would also help if an alternative to oil is quickly found,

  3. So you think the young converts have a different motivation from kids who are raised Islamists? In a comment on my blog you wrote:

    “From their childhood they are taught to hate non muslims. All attempts to hide that basic hatred is temporary till their own ends is met, ie where they are they become the majority. Believe me, this is not something that I have been brainwashed into believing, it is something that family members who are muslims have shared with me. I make no bones about my being islamophobic while not being muslimphobic.

    I live in India which has the second largest muslim population after Indonesia. It has more muslims than Pakistan has. They live among us, and mostly share many of our strengths and weaknesses but insist on being different. So be it.

    I think that you would agree with me that Thomas Friedman is not a lunatic. This is what he has to say. There is one particular statement that I would stress on. “………and without generating any vigorous, sustained condemnation in the Muslim world.”

    1.
    “In the past few years, hundreds of Muslims have committed suicide amid innocent civilians – without making any concrete political demands and without generating any vigorous, sustained condemnation in the Muslim world.

    Two trends are at work here: humiliation and atomization. Islam’s self identity is that it is the most perfect and complete expression of God’s monotheistic message, and the Quran is God’s last and most perfect word. To put it another way, young Muslims are raised on the view that Islam is God – 3.0 Christianity is God – 2.0 Judaism is God – 1.0 And Hinduism and all others are God 0.0.

    One of the factors driving Muslim males, particularly educated ones, into these acts of extreme, expressive violence is that while they were taught that they have the most perfect and complete operating system, every day they’re confronted with the reality that people living by God2.0, God 1.0 and God – 0.0 are generally living much more prosperously, powerfully and democratically than those living under Islam. This creates a real dissonance and humiliation. How could this be? Who did this to us? The crusaders! The Jews! The West! It can never be something they failed to learn, adapt to or build. This humiliation produces a lashing out.”

    Thomas L. Friedman, The New York Times. July 4, 2007.
    2.

    “We patronize Islam, and mislead ourselves, by repeating the mantra that Islam is a faith with no serious problems accepting the secular West, modernity and pluralism, and the only problem is a few bin Ladens. Although there is a deep moral impulse in Islam for justice, charity and compassion, Islam has not developed a dominant religious philosophy that allows equal recognition of alternative faith communities.”

    Thomas L. Friedman, The New York Times.”
    Cheerful Monk recently posted..Throwing Paint

    • Jean, I stand by what you have quoted here as coming from me. You have to go back to the post and appreciate that apart from the terrorist who is born into the religion, the convert too finds legitimacy in violence in Islam which provides a platform for him. Dr. Dalrymple clearly states “What these cases show is that it is not Islam that makes young converts violent; it is the violence within them that causes them to convert to Islam. The religion, in its most bloodthirsty form, supplies all their psychological needs and channels their anger into a supposedly higher purpose. It gives them moral license to act upon their rage; …..”

      No, I do not find any contradiction there, There are simply multiple motivations playing out here. The guys who motivate both the converts and the borns are united in one motivation and they simply use different animals to carry out the violent acts. The same driver, two different vehicles.

      • I agree, different people have different experiences/motives. I wonder if anyone raised to be a radical Islamist ever breaks free?

        Friedman doesn’t seem to distinguish between Islamists and other Muslims. He says, “Islam has not developed a dominant religious philosophy that allows equal recognition of alternative faith communities.” I was raised a Roman Catholic, and the same can (could?) be said of that religion. As soon as the Christians gained recognition from Constantine they started killing one another because of their different beliefs. That doesn’t mean no Christian can be tolerant.
        Cheerful Monk recently posted..Throwing Paint

        • Your use of the word ‘tolerant’ says it all.

          Starting from Edward Said, it has been a grouse which still is aired often in the East, read the non Abrahamic religious establishment, that all the Abrahamic religions at best ‘tolerate’ other religions. The Eastern religionists have been asking for respect and acceptance as theirs also being legitimate paths to the truth. Till today, this is not acceptable. The Eastern traditions however have no problem with the Abrahamic ones as being paths among the many available.

        • As I recall the kids in Slumdog Millionaire were Muslims being persecuted by Hindus. As a teen I was impressed by the Hindu idea that all roads lead to God. Unfortunately that official belief doesn’t mean there won’t be hatred of, and violence against, people who are different.
          Cheerful Monk recently posted..Throwing Paint

          • That happens too. Mostly due to illegal immigrants from Bangladesh who are given protection by slum lords for vote banks. The other side’s slum lords create problems. Wheels withing wheels. It is a complex country with complex problems.

  4. Keith says:

    Again, a very interesting post & thought provoking.
    Thank you.
    Regards, Keith.

  5. Looney says:

    There are undoubtedly a lot of factors at play, but it does seem that the western elites desire to maximize a sense of victimhood and discourage the underclass from rising out of poverty fits in nicely with the methods of Islamic indoctrination.

    • You are bang on there too. There are a number of factors at play here. The sense of victimhood being on both sides of the divide it has now become a self reinforcing loop!

  6. Pitt Goumas says:

    It is like this with Islam THESE days. All religions have been linked with violence in the past.
    Pitt Goumas recently posted..How Accurate Are Home STD Tests?

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